NZPPCC - The NZ Primera & Pulsar Car Club

General Forums => Club & Forum info => Topic started by: Brotangp104lyf on 08 April, 2017, 04:38:28 AM

Title: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 08 April, 2017, 04:38:28 AM
Are there any workshop manuals available to view thru the forums? Am I not seeing them because I'm not a paid member? Having them readable or in PDF format would help a ton of the questions be self answered.

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: morrisman1 on 08 April, 2017, 10:34:13 PM
yea there is a full p11 manual on the paid section.

No N14 ones there, but that can be arranged. Ive got the n14 one in PDF, its just a really big file. The p11 manual has gearbox and engine stuff in it, which is quite useful, but the wiring is not so much as its for the OBD2 versions.

N14 wiring is useful for p10 in a engine sense.
Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 09 April, 2017, 04:50:46 AM
Oh Kay that's sweet, I'm really after a p10 one that does the midget freckly cousin of the sr range the di. I can't even order one thru Nissan!!??? I've been meaning to upgrade my membership so that gives me a reason to get off me butt. I've just spent a ton ( well a ton for a stock 91 primera anyway rebuilding the engine but just won't run over 4k. The di has no apparent knock sensing and jeepers does she knock! Ecu just flashes a 55 no matter what wire I unplug or cut so I call the ecu diagnostics a waste of time now. I'm hoping the manual might shed some light as a last resort. Swapped all sensors bar the maf as I can't find one with no difference, and I feel the mafs OK as she really don't like it being unplugged so must be doing something....right? I'm way out in the wops but I'll get to town and sign up properly and have a gork. Cheers man.

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: morrisman1 on 09 April, 2017, 07:51:19 AM
have you got a nissan consult reader for your laptop?

Id also whip the timing chain cover off and make sure that the cam timing is correct too.
Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 09 April, 2017, 12:22:02 PM
When I first put it back together I was a tooth out on exhaust cam so corrected and triple checked all the timing, starts idles and runs smooth until around 4k. Advancing and retarding timing changes things under 4k as expected as well. Pretty much if I slowly glide up to 4k cold it will run past there to around 5 but hesitates then pops like buggery. If I just stomp it she really goes to convulsions but as it warms up it gets worse. I've pretty much benched her for a while coz I'm losing my beans over and don't wanna dent it! I changed a few things that may not interact well like using flat top pistons in the lowport di head, high port non roller cams on low port RR head. Down low its awesome, easily half on top of what it had before. Pulls hard but then jerks and farts around. Swapped dizzy out thinking could be there but same deal. These obd readers.....a mate has one but only does 96 on. The di has maf, tps, 02, temp, oil, and the dizzy and thats about it. Will I get much joy from a reader?

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 09 April, 2017, 01:52:27 PM
When I can get my head around going back under the bonnet I need to do a comp test as I'm starting to feel I might have gone too far as after draining tank and running 98 it got much better as in before right from startup would pop and bang but on 98 its better cold, soon as temp comes up its just horrible. Its knocking but with no sensor I can't see how ecu would know ( I havnt removed it, never had one) to correct it so itll just pop till bang! My current theory is I may have too much comp. High port and lowport have different chambers and pistons to match. I've essentially got the smallest chamber and shaved it, and the high comp ( for high port ) pistons. Extra can duration and free flowed intake, on a tight bottom end. I may just have gone outside of the standard fuel/ air control abilities of factory sensors and ecu? Too much comp, no knock sensor extra mixture getting in dot dot dot. If I cannot get it to run right with what I've got here ive got a link atom a few weeks off being achievable so am going to get one when I can and have a play. Never tried electronically tuning anything before so should be a adventure! The thing that's bugging me is under 4k it really does go primo, 1st 2nd both wheels easy then 4k buck, fitsew, bang, buck, buck, dohhh,pang. Ive done over half a million Kay's in this car over 16-17 years and it never pulled this good. I got it with 47k on clock...mint! And it never just spun up without trying. Pretty frustrating feeling that, then nothing but horrendous noise and no power past 4k after spending near half the cars original cost on the engine!

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: My real name is Lance on 10 April, 2017, 10:18:05 PM
sounds like you should take it into a tuner's shop for a "diagnostic dyno run" or something of the like. They'll connect up a knock detection device, wideband O2 sensor, etc... and see what's going on. That will tell you if you're running lean or knocking and where in the rev range it's happening, etc. It would probably help if you got Nissan Consult going as well, as they might not have that (because most people coming in would just have a Link G4 already, or have a Holden commy or whatever and/or something that's well known.

You just need to get a Nissan consult cable, and a software package, e.g. NissanDataScan. Costs about $55 for the software.
Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 11 April, 2017, 05:32:31 AM
Cheers real name is lance,  I went to actually do that and when I got in there the guy didn't even say hi lol. He was mid tune and all he said was "not today" hadn't even said what was wrong yet so if he's too busy to take the grand I was about to spend on the link then he's definitely too busy to tune it! Talked to nz performance in palmy and they were much more helpful. Had a couple in the know mates look at it but still scratching heads. Was going to go down the standard ecu and consult road but am going link now and just delete the Nissan ecu all together. It reads no codes only 55 everytime and I've tested all the sensors and they check out fine. Even my 02 with around 600k on it! Plugs were new from rebuild and have a nice colour which makes me think its less of a mixture issue than an electrical something. Its like 650 odd notes for a dyno tune locally so gunna need to shop around.

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 11 April, 2017, 05:51:02 AM
I was hoping the workshop manual would show me a pinout for the di and if the ecu had an allowance for knock sensor ( generic board ) and they just weren't wired in or something. Its very hard to find anything specifically on the di engine at all. Even Nissan can't help! ( mind you the list of Nissan primera parts you can't get from Nissan has got bigger after rebuild I'm kinda shocked at how hopeless they are at sourcing anything for their own brand ). I'm going to get back under there today and do comp test 1st as I'm leaning towards too much compression now after checking sensors. Hotter it gets, worse it gets. More load bad, less load better. Has anybody run the flat top de pistons in a lowport that originally had the dish type pistons?  From what I've read the dished pistons go in the lowport as they have a smaller combustion chamber and flat tops for larger chamber. I've put flat tops in the lowport so might have increased comp considerably causing knock.???

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: spannerz on 11 April, 2017, 09:16:17 PM
Run less advance, retard it.  Run AV gas or octane booster.  Check your A/F ratio, but I guess what everybody is trying to say is your ecu isn't cutting it you need to get the atom and tune it.

If you can get anymore fuel up it at 4k that might help. Can you fit a bigger injector? 
Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: spannerz on 11 April, 2017, 09:44:46 PM
Has anyone tryed to offset a maf reading before?  Put a resistor in parallel
with maf temp sensor to raise air density and give better fuel ratio? 

Disconnect the o2 sensor?

Can you make it miss in the shed?  Take it up to rpm then Squirt some fuel vapour up the intake. 
Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 12 April, 2017, 05:23:09 AM
I havnt touched maf yet other than unplug it to see if it made a difference and yip, she really didn't like me doing that! My next step is to grab a can of cleaner " only found out they can be cleaned a couple weeks ago " its not so much a miss as in and I know its very hard to judge an issue without seeing/ hearing it 1st hand but it revs up smooth and when it " glitches " there's popping, no power and kind of blips in and out of power. Best description of sound is its like anti lag at high rpm! I've run it without 02 and was the same so tested it with gas torch and it reads just under 1v and drops down instantly pretty much so I ticked it off the list of possible problems. I also swapped it with another good one from a de I have here and did same thing. A mates told me to try restricting flow thru maf with tape to see if makes a difference. It doesnt do it as bad in shed cold, the hotter it gets the worse it gets and under load cold its drivable under 3-4k but again as it warms up the use able rev range gets pretty slim, pull over and rev it stationary while hot and pops and farts a fair bit. Can stomp it from idle on take off and comes on song straight away then buuur buck fitsew fut fut ping pop badaah pop bang as revs climb.

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 12 April, 2017, 05:39:31 AM
I'm on 98 now and that got me nearly to redline cold without load but as warms up gets worse. Considered getting a wideband sensor but decided the link road will get me better bang for my buck and the link can take advantage of a wideband sensor better than standard ecu. There is a sr20di according to wiki but I've never seen one and can't find much online anywhere on these dam di engines. I was thinking actually how to tee in another injector on a switch maybe as a mate of mine had a Mazda with one in the plenum for " high boost " the standard injector doesn't pulse, it just sprays and pretty poorly too. Can watch the droplets hitting the butterfly and its not a " mist " as much as a squirt. Even that may be an issue but my thinking is before Xmas was running fine bar low comp from over half a million Kay's and finally breaking a ring on no1. I scored a mint bottom end from n14 gti and sent head off for valve grind and to be shaved. So in my mind electronically should have been kosha to just reassemble and run. My mate reckons try run it on two stroke! Spose that would kill any knock at least but might be hard on 02 sensor which I'm yet to research.

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: spannerz on 13 April, 2017, 01:44:23 PM
Just read through your other posts.

Before engine reaches running temp, the ECU will run cold timing and fuel maps.  This is more fuel and less advance.

I'm assuming your running a manual box and manual ecu? Ratios between gears look like they change points drop it back to 4k rpm from redline. 

You also look like you've removed intake secondary controls and changed cams.  I don't know how the di does its thing, especially with the secondaries,  but I speculate at 4k rpm the ecu is switching to closed loop running too lean? and timing vs cam overlap or lift is wrong.

Try the other cams or put the secondary valves back in.
Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 14 April, 2017, 08:08:37 PM
Just read through your other posts.

Before engine reaches running temp, the ECU will run cold timing and fuel maps.  This is more fuel and less advance.

I'm assuming your running a manual box and manual ecu? Ratios between gears look like they change points drop it back to 4k rpm from redline. 

You also look like you've removed intake secondary controls and changed cams.  I don't know how the di does its thing, especially with the secondaries,  but I speculate at 4k rpm the ecu is switching to closed loop running too lean? and timing vs cam overlap or lift is wrong.

Try the other cams or put the secondary valves back in.
I'm nearly back around to doing more on it, started it today and played with maf and I'm sure it does need a clean. Good point about the cold start tune, I hadn't thought of that. The " secondary " well they are actually port restrictors for low rpm. At idle they're shut blocking about 70% of the port on the head side of intake manifold. When you open throttle vacuum opened them up around 1500 rpm. The actuator had a 2 wire plug to it. I'm now wondering if that switched it out of that closed loop mode ( I've seen it but am still learning ecu talk ) I need to find the dam thing 1st! Got parts here there and everywhere up the razzoo lol. They're a strange engine alright, nothing like the other variants at all bar the name. Kinda cool tho as today was playing with maf and you can see it actually spraying less or more into the throttle body as ya cover and uncover it. I also thought today that I might be able to put resistance in the 02 sensor wire or use one of those extenders perhaps to richen mix a bit but need to look into it more.

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 18 April, 2017, 02:48:57 PM
Well, I found the arm, actuator and bracket from the second flaps but cannot see the switch bit that plugs into loom anywhere. So I simply bridged the terminals on loom. Much better! That switch must be a variable resistance type perhaps. By bridging I think its signalling for WOT and adjusting mixture to suit. Smells rich out the back like burn ya eyes lol. Sounds way way better like its being fed properly now. The only way it pings is when you cruise and slightly accelerate under load. Can stop it by stomping to the floor. I figure with no variance on the now bridged switch it can't adjust mixture for revs/ load properly. But it drives! I'm stoked! Theres a knack to driving it to avoid pinging. Easy done till I get the link in. Spanners your the man, thank you. And the others that helped thank you, these di's are a strange one

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 18 April, 2017, 02:51:35 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/284a8e8ca79507439ae99caba0e1a56f.jpg)

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Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: spannerz on 06 May, 2017, 11:10:05 AM
Nice one bro.
Title: Re: Workshop manuals?
Post by: Brotangp104lyf on 21 August, 2019, 07:21:42 PM
Just an update, did manage to get it hauling all the way to redline after shorting out the sender wires from the vacuum actuated " secondary " or low rpm butterflies in manifold, running 98, a tweak of timing ignoring the marks and going by ear/feel she runs nice, recently fitted new headers from a ve and better exhaust and she pulls real nice now especially in the midrange. It's actually faster to 100km than my det aviner now lol.